#03 / new visions in conversation with Mieke Renders
Mieke Renders is running one of the oldest and most dynamic cultural networks in Europe: Trans Europe Halles. I am so inspired by the way she is weaving practices of connection into the world of culture, by the way she is doing culture: inviting non-human perspectives and valuing immensly connection with the Earth. She is a believer of the enormous force of the independent cultural sector and it’s ability to co-shape the world of equity and justice. I ask her how we can get there together.
AB: To open up the topic, the first question we start these conversations with is a very simple one: what arises in you when you hear the word leadership, what comes up in the feelings, images, thoughts?
MR: First, I see a sacred Queen, a person who is calm, devoted to the work, and who listens to everybody. On the other hand, I also can feel some stress of expectations, when I hear the word "leadership". The stress comes probably from the fact that it is such a broad word, it is much broader than managing or coordinating. So you can fill it in in many ways. Expectations can also be very high. Leadership is more like an open ocean. And, you know, or you think, you know, you try to steer a ship towards an island or a country, and everybody has to trust you. Sometimes the people on board don't see where you're going, because they have another task on board. They are not standing at the captain steer or at a point where they can see the future/or destination. Or they don't have your knowledge about the ocean. So that's a bit how I see leadership, that's the images that come across.
AB: You point that there is a community part of that, that there are people that have different experiences, different perspectives. What's the role of collectivity in your understanding of leadership? What collective leadership could look like?
MR: I think a leader has to hold the space for the whole group that he or she is leading. And it is sometimes hard. You want to acknowledge every single person for who they are, and that they are a whole person, that they can show up as a whole person in an organization where they work. And on the other hand, you have a whole group, together, with all those different characters and personalities. And collective leadership is finding a balance between that individual state of being and the individual soul, and also the group soul, which can be a very different one. How not to lose yourself too much in the individual, or too much in the group and then ignoring the individual.
AB: One of the aspects we are trying to uncover or explore more, because when growing up, we are very much socialized with this idea of the individual leader, of this one person that is holding power, is how we can share power. We are searching for ways to collectivise leadership, to expose different practices that can help us share power in our communities. What are the practices that you embedded in your community to collectivise your leadership?
MR: Let me start with what we do when we have a team meeting. We always do a check-in round: “how is your energy today? how are you sitting here?” before we start discussing work. I think that clears the air for a lot of people. Some are tired or stressed or happy and if you can say it out loud and everybody's listening and acknowledging your state of energy you are not stressed in the talk later. It's already in the air if somebody feels bad or sad. Everybody can take that into account that this person is not at 100% today, or is at 150% because he or she is happy. That's something we do. Other than that, I believe that people can come up with all kinds of ideas and have a lot of space to try new things or to change. Especially now in COVID time, it's important that people can do their things, but they also need to come back to the group with their ideas. Because we are a small organization, people cannot move too much and there are no salary increases or no position increases, it's not possible. But you can grow horizontally by exploring new fields. I am always balancing between freedom and space and also possibilities. And now with COVID, it's a bit challenging for me, because I don't see people in our group or in person anymore. You have to let go of this control that you have more when you're in an office together. You have to trust people are doing their work. Nine to five doesn't count so much anymore, so the office hours are mostly gone, and the little coffee breaks and meals together. But as a leader, you have to let it go. There is no control there. I never control if people are online or not. I don't go in and see if everybody's online at nine o'clock. You have to get used to that letting go of control. I think a lot of leaders are struggling with trust issues this year.
AB: So moving on and thinking about you as a person that is leading a network of cultural centers and is dedicated to creating culture, a culture that is transformative. A person that I see as one that courageously invites certain perspectives and practices that are not necessarily understood as normative: I'm curious to hear what brought you here. What were these moments in which you’ve decided that you are just going to do constellation work for cultural practitioners because you know that it's extremely important and liberating? What were these moments that made you do the work the way you do it now?
MR: Those moments are actually very personal moments. I've seen the work since 2014 or so. I've seen the energetic work, constellations work, and I saw what it did to people and to myself. Actually, I started very easily with organizations constellations. I thought “Oh, it's not about me” because I was scared as hell. Family constellations?! I didn't even dare doing that or entering this ‘scary’ territory. But then, when I was working in New York, there was somebody: a friend of mine from Belgium. She did organizations constellations. And I felt that it is safe and I went there. I was sold immediately. I saw all the power and that it's not about organizations at all. I learned that to start transforming something you have to start from within you! Instead of putting a cosmetic layer somewhere in an organization or whatever, you have to start from yourself. You have to be a good example yourself. Be vulnerable, be open.
After New York, I went to Amsterdam. I did the constellations with my whole team there and it was very difficult. Really difficult. I shook an organization that was not ready for it. It was not ready for Frederic Laloux. Not at all. The system of the organisation was built differently than mine. So I burned out. And then came Sweden. I've always believed in this kind of work from vulnerability and sharing. In Sweden it was the organization where I could do it and I felt safe. I could also heal, it gave back my trust, that it is a good way to move on. For me, it is possible that you are vulnerable with your team and you give space and you do this kind of work. So I was like, okay, it is possible here. Let's also try for the daredevils to offer this personal work into the cultural sector. This is how we started. There was a framework: we have to do capacity building on this and this and this, and then let's take it to the next level! In the leadership course let's also embrace systemic constellations. Now, we have a capacity-building manager, Ella Overkleeft, who also embraces personal awareness and spirituality. And for her, it's a natural thing to do. The Summer of imagination course was from her. She understands this and I see that more people are becoming open to it too.
AB: I'm thinking about the word “healing” and how this work can be healing. When and how did you notice that the healing is necessary? I'm thinking about you as a young professional that works in this old-fashioned cultural sector. What needed to heal according to your diagnosis and your personal experiences that then got you into inviting more spiritual practices into your work?
MR: I needed to heal. I needed to start trusting my intuition. It was circumstances and resistance that made me crash. And I needed that crash. I was preparing my whole life until that crash, everything was building up, so I could have that crash a couple of years ago. As a leader, I also try to comfort people and give them trust that it's okay to crash. Because you will raise if you are conscious about it. If you're open-minded, you will only become a better you, a more whole you. And I also try to give space, a lot of space. When somebody of my staff goes through a personal transformation or personal crisis, I let them do it. And it's something that happened already that somebody didn't show up at the office or was kind of lost or very unavailable for weeks and weeks in a row. Then, of course, It's hard for the others, but I say “Okay, let's give it time and do your work. And it will all be fine”. But it's a bit tricky. Sometimes you never know when and how it will come out.
AB: Well, that's very courageous and beautiful. Also thinking about how the collective can hold this person that is going through something important. And this respect and trust that this is important for you, and we are there for you to support you in this process.
MR: It's not always spoken about at the moment that it happens. But because people share and I encourage them to share in the sharing circle, before the meetings if they're sitting with something big, they do. Then everybody knows, and it's already puff, I think it's much lighter then. But sometimes it scares myself to hell, and I'm very insecure if it's the right way to go or not. Or I'm exaggerating in the old fashioned terms with more authority. Or when somebody says, “you have to be more boss, and this and that”, and I just can't.
AB: I am very grateful for you to share this insecurity and this awareness that there are certain ideas of who a leader is supposed to be and how much courage it takes to be a different leader. I am wondering what's the role of spirituality in your practice as a cultural practitioner? And how do you invite it?
MR: When I have a difficult meeting with somebody, I try to listen to my body. What it does when people say something. Then I just listen. I listen from the heart and speak from the heart. Try to avoid going into "yes, but" arguing. Mostly when I feel what's in me, what happens in me, and then approach the conversation through that, instead of “Yes, but you did that, and you said that, and it's not okay, and…” I listen more from the heart and speak from the heart. It's like "the way of the council". I also meditate sometimes, and I walk a lot. I try to ground. I have a grounding exercise that I come back to. I have also shared it with a team. Last year when we had a team building, for example, we walked in silence for 20 minutes all as a team. If people want to come up with meditation or yoga, they are welcome. And not everybody has to participate in it. So the little steps. Of course, COVID has changed so much.
AB: When we bring this the COVID, current situation, and also where the idea of having this conversation started. I would like to ask you: what is this that currently concerns you most about the world? What is the issue that you find is the most urgent or important one?
MR: I think we need to go back to Mother Earth as soon as we can. Be more humble and integrate nature again in our lives, the soil and health of our planet is really my biggest concern. Another concern that I have is this whole mass hypochondria and paranoia that has arisen up. I hate that people have now become so afraid of each other, of sicknesses and diseases and that makes me so sad. Just if we were healthy human beings connected to nature and dig with our hands, get dirty again, have soil under our nails. It's the best way to stay healthy. People are so worried about each other now, because you can bring the disease, sneezing, huh. That's more concerned about human behavior. It's not a concern about the world. Pollution - that's more my concern and cutting trees.
AB: I think about the culture as a practice and as a transformative practice. Also, I believe that us as people that work with culture, our role is also to build bridges, address problems. What are these connections or bridges that you find the most important to commit to, to contribute to currently?
MR: The bridge to spirituality and the bridge to nature is what we need to restore. We can restore maybe with culture, with our psyche. Nature, of course, is spirituality. Everything is spirituality. The spirit is everything. So maybe we can work more with it in our leadership or in our practices or in performing arts or visual arts?!
AB: I think that I have already grasped the answer to this question, but I would be happy to hear it from you in a concise way. What is this that lies in the center of your work? What are the central values that guide you in the way you do culture?
MR: I think the connection. Connecting. Embracing, envisioning, and trusting that it's going to be okay. That everything, whatever happens, is okay.
AB: Would you like to tell me a bit more about envisioning. What lies behind envisioning?
MR: Every year at the start of the year, I set an intention for the organization. Direction. It's way beyond, it's a bit vague. It's just an intention. And I read it to the whole team. Sometimes it's a bit creepy because it always happens what you set as an intention. And it comes really from the heart, it's like a blurb. I write it down in a book in five minutes, it's like envisioning a future without being concrete. Like this ship idea that we had at the start. It's like: okay, we're going there! We won't see it yet, but let's do this. Let's go in that direction. I'm a big thinker. I don't go into forms and outputs and impact and... I get very tired by that, so I have people that are very good at that. I love to have a big picture. And I trust that it's gonna be there. That's what I mean by envisioning the big picture.
AB: Thinking about this challenging year, what are the biggest difficulties or challenges for your work currently? Not only covid related, but also socially or politically related?
MR: The digital. I thrive on connecting people, giving them the floor, enabling them, and just putting them together. I just can't do that anymore, so I'm having a big energy leak with that. And I don't believe completely in the digital. I believe in a one-on-one. But when it gets hard or when it's a bit difficult or brainstorming or saying that a group it's holding a group together on the digital is so hard. and also networking in a digital way is already one more abstraction higher.
AB: How do you deal with these difficulties?
MR: I try to go outside a bit and turn off my computer the whole weekend. it has been a bit going up and down.I did the nine days off-screen. I didn't open my computer, that was great.
AB: It's really inspiring. And I'm writing down that I need to get an analog alarm clock!
MR: Very good thing.
AB: How did you get it with your team?
MR: I told them, I gathered them together and said: “I will be off next week. I am not well, I am exhausted. And I need to do this now”. And then the operational things go there. I worked for one more hour and then I was off.
AB: It's amazing. I think it's great that there is so much trust that you can just come and say, This is what I really need. Otherwise, it's not going to be good for our community. Because it's not only about you taking care of yourself, but you're taking care of yourself and your people. In these difficult times and challenging moments we're living in, how do you cultivate hope? Also on the personal level.
MR: We are as constructive as we can with our communication. We hold space for the members. There are informal coffee breaks. we are there for them and our communication is very few COVID related. We say just "Hey, we're gonna do a TEH television" and we come and do this! And this is nice! And I'm very aware of what happens inside of me now, in these times. I think for many people if they're a bit aware, it became very clear: what you want and what you don't want anymore. I had a lot of time to dive into myself. No more traveling no more hectic. We worked hard. We worked a lot, even too much also. But still, I had a lot of space for myself, and I know myself even better. I also know that I need even more nature in my life in the future. Whatever it will be.
AB: I resonate strongly with that. We also had such a very busy life when it comes to traveling, flying, working weekends, etc. And at the beginning of this year, my intention was to slow down. We spend so much time in nature now, almost every weekend. I take care of being around the trees and it's just healing in itself. What would be your advice for the people that want to do the kind of transformative work that you're doing? What would be something that you would be willing to share as extremely important or very valuable for those that would like to contribute to the same shift of paradigm?
MR: Speak about it! Be open about it, be vulnerable. Everybody who speaks about this might get resistance. Or someone can look a bit strange at you. But there is always someone somewhere along your road that picks it up and encourages you. So speak! Speak about it and be open about it. Be vulnerable. Dare to be vulnerable. There's nothing to lose.
AB: Yeah, I think it's difficult to realize that there's nothing to lose, because people have this idea of their reputation or their image of who they are.
MR: What is that?! (laughs)
AB: As a goodbye question I would like to hear a little bit more about the grounding practice you were mentioning before?
MR: So - you stand on your both feet on the ground and you imagine a light, a threat going through your head, going through your whole body. You go with that, slowly, slowly, it goes in between your legs, through the earth and it pulls deeper; one-two meters into the earth. You stay there for a couple of minutes. Then you do it again. One, two, three times. You do it once in the morning, you can do it during the day, you can do it whenever! It doesn’t take much time and the more you do it, the quicker it comes. You feel almost the roots growing out of your feet. Or you feel tingling in your legs. It helps to root, to ground. You stop - you take time to reconnect with yourself, you pull the break of the day.